Thoughts for the Road: Full-On-Top Boobs in a World of Lower Fullness

Today I spent a long time thinking about why I stopped blogging.

Part of it was (I’ll be honest) the hurt of reading questions on forums when I’d spent hours writing up detailed posts answering those very questions. It seemed like it wouldn't matter if I disappeared.

Another part of it is my continued ambivalence about my boobs. I've never been the type to enjoy showing off cleavage; I'm all about bras that minimize and tops that smash my boobs. I have to deal with having big boobs, and I refuse to act like it's hard (it's not), but I don't necessarily have to like it. And sometimes I just want to cling to the Tutti Rouge Liliana and live it up in flowy crop tops. (At the end of that post you can read about my concern that this bra would allow me to relapse into my insecurity. I guess maybe it did.) And that doesn't really give me much to blog about. I don't want to spread my ambivalence, but right now I've retreated into it.

Part of it is that my passion faded. The bra world dealt me a few minor blows, and a few major ones, which snowballed together and everything started to seem disappointing.

Tutti Rouge abandoned their cute aesthetic in favor of this upcoming Fifty Shades of Gray foolishness. Meanwhile their shipping to the US remains so high that I can’t justify ordering the bras I love from their current collection, even as they sell out one by one, never to be replaced.

Even worse news came from Freya. The Marvel, the best bra I ever found for my shape, didn’t even make it to a third season.  They’re “replacing” it with a modified side-support full-cup which doesn’t look like it will be open on top at all. They’ve also recently added piping to the top edges of their Deco, which will reduce gapping experienced by full-on-bottom users, but will mean it no longer works for full-on-top boobs. You can see from these comparison photos the way in which the Deco has been edging away from being full-on-top friendly for years. 

Old Freya Deco (Pomegranate)

Freya Ashlee (Deco Variant) in a cup size BIGGER

The new Deco has a tighter top edge like the Ashlee pictured, but the biggest change is a deeper, smaller apex that just does not work with full-on-top boobs.

Both these moves, I must assume, are meant to correct issues encountered by buyers with lower fullness, who make up the majority of the market. I GET all this, I understand. It is not really news to me. The best bras for full-on-top boobs will always live fast and die young. I know that the majority of boobs have lower fullness and I know that companies want and need to cater to the largest sections of their audiences. Still, I wish…

…that there were more of us?

That companies were willing to produce smaller runs of bras for us and just warn off the full-on-bottom buyers?

The alienation I felt as a woman with full-on-top boobs was the biggest, most painful, and most important reason I started a blog in the first place. I guess it’s ironic that now it’s the factor that’s forcing me out. At the time, it was so hard dealing with what felt like a world of bras that wouldn’t fit me in any size due to cutting in on the top edge. It was so hard having bras that looked cute on so many people make my boobs look so sad. The hardest thing was struggling with the fact that people erroneously assume the shape is a synonym for "perky", when in reality full-on-top boobs have a lower apex and tend to point down naturally. I know now that full-on-top boobs are not something to be ashamed of, they are just different than what most people have and are familiar with. But, oh, it was SO hard back then.

I try to be more philosophical now. I try to keep in mind the expanded options. I try to forget the worst slights . I try to snap up the best bras when they come around. I try to spread knowledge so that those who share my shape can feel okay with it.

But right now, I just don’t have the love in my heart, and I'm sorry. Let’s go over it one more time, together, because I don’t know how long it will be before I come back. Here’s how we full-on-top ladies can navigate a world of bras that just won’t work for us.

Bravissimo: The Boudoir Beau is the only unpadded balconette that can work. It’s still a wiggle, but it works. Half cups are always good (Bravissimo’s run small).

Cleo: Marcie is a good bet. Avoid Meg. For other balconettes, wide gores allow you to take in the gore to make the shape more open on top—another good bet (try Lucy, but expect to take in the gore).  Half cups (Juna) are always good.

Panache: Avoid the sea of full cups. Avoid Tango like the plague. Avoid Tango knockoffs. Seek only the rarer-than-hens’-teeth balconettes (like Sienna) and the full-cups with elastic on the top (Jasmine, Envy, Andorra, Clara).

Freya: Avoid the unpadded balconettes. (I know, I know… but save yourself the grief. Avoid them all.) Marvel is perfect (wide, though, if that’s not your thing). Patsy and other padded half-cups are a great bet. That includes the longlines. Unpadded plunge swimwear is a miracle. (Wear as a swimsuit, wear as a bra, wear as a shining shield of good feelings.) Look for the oldest Decos without the trim on the top edge.

Curvy Kate: Avoid all the balconettes, especially the padded ones. Half-cups (currently Ritzy, formerly Tease Me/Thrill Me) are a good bet.

Fantasie: Most are not ideal.

Masquerade: Half-cups (Rhea, Delphi) are always a good bet.

Tutti Rouge: Liliana works for the shallow. Betty (half-cup) is a good bet. Sophia/Mae is okay. Avoid Frankie/Olivia and Birds of a Feather/Evelyn and their knockoffs.

Avoid anything with horizontal seams.

Seek vertical seams.

Good luck out there.

Full Bust “Greatest Hits”: Bras I Hate & Love Gives Out Some Awards

A couple of clever readers have suggested that I do some sort of round-up of the best bras available and I thought it was a really great idea. I think it will be helpful for anyone who isn’t sure where to start with properly fitted bras or new knowledge of their shape, or for anyone struggling to build a basic collection. I’m trying to cover all the bases here. Let me know what I missed!

I’ve distinguished in some categories between bras that give a ‘purple shape’

and bras that give a ‘green shape’.

I’ve also tried to distinguish between bras for full-on-top boobs and full-on-bottom boobs wherever relevant. Bras I’ve honored for shapes other than my own are based on the experiences of bloggers, forum members, and friends with different shapes than mine. Bras lost points for things like crappy band construction and problems that plague almost everyone. (That’s why you don’t see the Cleo Lucy on here, even though it’s a personal favorite—the band is at a stupidly high angle and the gore is too wide for most people.) I also pretty much ignored bras with smaller cup size ranges because I just don’t have a personal experience of them. Please note that this list is based on fit and shape, NOT fashion. 

Best ‘purple shape’ balconette bra for full-on-top boobs: Cleo Marcie. 

This one wins over the Lucy, etc because the band is better constructed and more stable, and the gore is narrower. The Marcie is pretty much a miracle constructed with magic, and gives the roundest of round shapes without pushing your boobs into your armpits. It needs to come out in black and beige, like, yesterday.

Honorable mention: Panache Sienna. 

Despite the lovely shape, I couldn’t let this one win because it comes out in dismally few colors and even those colors are boring repeats of colors it’s already come out in. It also lost points for confusing sizing--you ned to go up a cup size in the Sienna! This one runs a full cup size small.

Best ‘purple shape’ balconette bra for full-on-bottom boobs: Cleo Meg (and, I’m hoping, the new Lily—a slightly altered but ostensibly similar design). 

Meg

Lily

This bra is different from the Marcie’s construction. The top edge curves in more steeply and there’s more space at the diagonal seam. It works well for full-on-bottom ladies who want a really round shape but experience gapping in the Marcie.

Best ‘green shape’ balconette bra for full-on-bottom boobs: Bravissimo Alana. 

This is one of those ‘old faithful’ bras that you can buy in a ton of cute or useful colors if it fits. It’s loved for its perky shape and firm support.

Sizing: Runs a little bit small. Go up if you’re between sizes. This one will not work for full-on-top boobs.

Best full-cup bra: Panache Jasmine. 

This bra exploded on the scene a couple seasons back and has been really popular. Its genius comes from the uplifting side panel, the supportive firm fabric on the bottom, and the stretch lace in the top. That stretch allows the Jasmine to work for loads of people who tend to be a tricky fit. It expands to deal with bountiful upper breast fullness that tends to overwhelm most full-cup bras. It stretches back in to deal with breast with less upper fullness who tend to experience gapping. It provides a good fit to those with asymmetrical boobs who may struggle to find ANYTHING that works for both sides.  See also: The new Envy and Clara bras are based on the Jasmine, though with little tweaks.

Envy

Clara

Honorable mention: Panache Andorra. 

This ancestor of Jasmine has the same stretchy lace in the top, but it’s not as crazy-well-loved as the Jasmine and is, I think, a little less supportive.

Best bra for a retro shape: Bravissimo Dotty Spot. 

This bra gives an extreme green shape, what I call “good pointy”. It’s a cult classic, beloved by a committed fan base. The shape is definitely not for everyone, but I couldn’t not mention it!

Sizing: Works better for those without too much upper fullness, but can work for various shapes.

Best bra for a round but minimized shape: Tutti Rouge Liliana. 

If you prefer to blend in rather than stand out, if you’re not at an emotionally stable place about having larger boobs, if you have to wear scrubs for work, if you have your eye on a drapy top, or if you just prefer a minimized look, try this one. 

Sizing: Go up a band size and a cup size. (E.g. If you normally wear a 30HH, try a 32HH.) Also, works better for shallower breasts.

Best plunge bra for firm breasts: Panache Andorra Plunge. 

This one benefits from the same stretchy material as the full-cup, which makes it really comfortable and helps it fit stubbornly shaped firm boobs. It provides the best subtle cleavage I’ve experienced.

Best plunge for soft breasts: Cleo Molly. 

I’ve heard this from a few people. Many women with softer breast tissue find they fall into the center in a plunge bra. Anecdotally, the Cleo Molly is genius for fixing this issue.

Best padded plunge overall: Bravissimo Satine. 

This one works for a lot of different shapes. It fits my full-on-top boobs perfectly and also perfectly fits my friend who is full-on-bottom. It gives a really nice balanced shape.

Best plunge for higher cup sizes: Ewa Michalak PL bras. 

Ewa’s PL bras go up to higher sizes than British plunge bras, and the expert construction provides the necessary stability even for heavy boobs.

Best strapless: HAHAHAHAHAHA funny joke. Errbody needs to go back to the drawing board on this one. Hint: Vertical seams. For instance, I have my eye on the Curvy Kate strapless that is slowly inching towards production.

Best unpadded half cup: Ewa Michalak’s HM styles. 

There are not a lot of options for unpadded half cups out there, but of those available, the HM is the most stable. Half cups can sometimes get a little jiggly and weak in the center, but the HM’s gore tends to sit flat. Some HM styles require going up in the band. Check Bratabase to verify for individual styles.

Best padded half cup: Masquerade Coco. 

I know this seems obscure. The Rhea and Delphi by rights belong here, but I took points off because the Rhea’s padding is a little too stiff and the Delphi’s straps are too thick to be practical. So although the Coco seems a strange choice, I believe it combines the best features of Rhea and Delphi.

Rhea

Delphi

Honorable mention: Tutti Rouge Betty. 

Though new on the scene, this half-cup is a blogger favorite. I think it's Tutti Rouge's most versatile fit, and as such, probably their best bra so far. Go up a band size and a cup size in this one (if you normally wear a 32F, try a 34F). 

Best Swimwear in General: FREYA!!!!!!! Hands down, no one else can even compete.

Best padded Swimwear: Freya’s padded sweetheart cut

 

Lindy Hop

Best unpadded swimwear: Freya’s plunge cut. 

Fever

In particular, the Fever bikini is their best. The construction changes slightly starting with H cups but it is still great.

Best molded (purple shape): Freya Deco. 

This bra also wins the category for “Best Bra to Feel Normal if You’re Used to Victoria’s Secret”. It wins this category by a sweep because it’s one of the few bras to come in TONS of colors, it has a low gore, and it has a comfy band. Some full-on-bottom ladies may struggle with gapping in this style.

Honorable Mention: Curvy Kate Smoothie. 

I can’t let this one win because preliminary reports indicate that these bras have already shrunk a full cup size in the new colors since my positive review.

Best molded (green shape): Fantasie 4510 Smoothing Molded T-Shirt Bra. 

This one gives a lovely perky, projected shape. I think it’s pretty underrated.

Best for deep cups with narrow wires: Ewa Michalak S and SM, and Comexim.

Ewa Michalak S Bambino

Ewa Michalak SM Trefl

Comexim Green Velvet

Ewa Michalak’s S and SM bras offer tons of projection and suit deep boobs that don’t get along with shallow British styles. The narrow wires make them especially good for small-framed women who can’t wear wide wires, or for anyone with narrow breast roots. 

Comexim bras also win in the deep cup/narrow wire category, and are even narrower in the wires than Ewa Michalak.

Most attractive sports bra: Panache Sports Bra. 

This one definitely gives the best shape of any sports bra out there. It also comes in cute colors, and I like the use of underwire as well as the racerback clip. I recommend sizing down in the band to increase stability.

Most effective sports bra: Bravissimo Inspire. 

It’s a LITTLE less ugly than the Freya Sports bra, and it immobilizes the boobs. It’s underwired, so it keeps everything separated and in place.

Honorable Mention: Shock Absorber Max Sports Top. 

I didn’t give the category to this one because I feel the lack of underwire can cause breasts to rub against each other unless you wear another bra underneath. However, this one will completely eliminate bounce.

That's all I've got for now... Did your favorite make the cut? If I missed something important, let me know in the comments!

Let's Just Figure Out Cup Size For Starters

In the past few weeks, I’ve read a bunch of articles in which we can see that the bra blogosphere has begun to infiltrate popular media, and it seems to really confuse people. See, for instance, this Jezebel article "Are Bras From Outer Space? Why Can't We Figure Out Bras?" The article was followed up as well. 

Here's another example from the Observer. 

The New York Times also recently ran an article about Jockey. I have to say the media blitz surrounding this frustrates me a little. Jockey is not a brand that I am super familiar with because it’s not one of the brands that’s ACTUALLY been quietly working towards better sizing for years. Okay, they created a new sizing system. Cool. But Freya, Panache, Curvy Kate have been doing it for years without ever getting this kind of exposure. Still, it's good to see bra sizes getting more exposure--one woman mentioned in the article wears a 32H, and there's no backhanded comment about that being a "huge" size. I'll try to find out more about how the Jockey sizing performs on larger cup sizes when I have more time on my hands.

But most frustrating are articles I'd characterize as "backlash." Check out this one: "Stop Telling Us We're Wearing the Wrong Bra Size." 

It really upsets me when people seem to believe that proper bra fitting is “a scam” designed to fool women and drive sales. By all means, if you truly believe this is all a big marketing scam, just continue to wear the size you’re wearing—if you’re happy enough in a size that you're unwilling to question it, then I’m going to respect you enough to believe that it is a size that works for you. But you also have to accept that tons and tons and tons of people have NEVER had the privilege of feeling like that. When your boobs are actually too big for the standard 32-38 A-DD sizes, and you’ve tried on hundreds of bras and maybe found two that sort of work if you readjust constantly throughout the day, you’re going to be pretty predisposed to be open to questioning your size. Before I got fitted properly, my ill-fitting 36C didn’t really feel right. I didn’t BELIEVE in my heart that I could be bigger than a C, but when I read an article in Oprah suggesting that I go down a band size and up a couple cup sizes, I switched to a 34DD because I knew something was wrong. I was pretty sure that was the right size for me, but I still could hardly ever find a bra in that size that fit, because I was convinced that most bras just sucked. (That’s a symptom, folks! If you think bras suck, try a radically different size.) So then I allowed my friend to drag me to a bra boutique, which fitted me into a 30GG. Boom, life made sense. No more constant readjustment. It’s not a scam. Some people really do need sizes that are not served by mainstream companies. 

As always, I enjoyed seeing the author of the backlash article get lampooned in the comments by like-minded souls: 

"Maybe you're just cranky because your bra doesn't fit. Adding inches to determine band size is outdated and inaccurate."

"This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. I imagine the author does not have large breasts. The difference between a proper fitting bra and an ill-fitting bra is night and day if you have large boobs. The reason why so many women are wearing the wrong size is because the lingerie industry tries to squeeze women into a limited number of sizes so they don't have to stock large numbers of sizes. Many women don't even realize a better fitting size exists… The reason people need to keep hearing about this stat is because too many women think a bra is SUPPOSED to be uncomfortable and painful at the end of the day and they are NOT."

"A correctly fitting bra does so much more than "make elements of your life pleasant"! It improves posture, can improve the shape and firmness of the breast both in the bra and out, should not cause discomfort or chafing unlike the wrong size... it can heal decades-long insecurity issues about your breasts. It's all-around better for a woman physically and emotionally to wear the right size bra. It absolutely IS a revelation when you find a perfect bra. It seems you are yet to find your right size... when that happens, you will know what we all mean by "revelation". 
Please don't write an arrogant article about something which you know nothing about."

--And yes, by the way. Getting the right bra fit can reverse aging because your boobs will get better shaped and less saggy when you’re no longer smashing them down against your chest in cups that are nine sizes too small. They’ll recover from the damage over time.

But I do understand that for your average woman who has never been exposed to bra fitting, it can be kind of confusing. I think the confusion often stems from the band size issue which so many bloggers (including me, of course!) are passionate about. But the biggest issue for people in the G+ range (especially those who don’t know yet that they are in that range) is really CUP SIZE. Going down a bunch of band sizes will accomplish nothing in terms of fit UNLESS the cups are big enough. If anything, sizing down in the band before you find big enough cups will make small cups seem even smaller, and make the subject even more confused.

So if you don’t have a clear idea on what size you are, you’re reading blogs and think 36DDD might not really be your size—focus first on cups. When you finally try on a bra with cups big enough, you will realize, if you haven't already, why bra fitting is so important to women in the blogosphere. And then, with that figured out, you can go down in the band until it feels stable and doesn’t ride up.

Here are the signs that you need a bigger cup size. Keep going up, up, up until ALL of these disappear!

1.     Obvious visual signs like a bulge where the bra meets your boobs.

2.     When you press the center gore (the part between the cups) flush to your body, the cups start to seem smaller, even if they “fit” otherwise.

3.      You’re wearing the largest size you can *find* because it’s the largest size you could find, rather than because the next size up was too large.

4.     You have to readjust or tuck your boobs back in often throughout the day.

5.      When you reach into the bra and lift your boobs up into the cups, the cups suddenly seem smaller. This process is called “swooping and scooping” and is meant to make sure all your breast tissue is inside the bra cups.

6.     Your boobs look or feel somehow out of proportion, like they don’t really match your body. This is a more personal one for me, and I’ve heard other women mention feeling like this as well before they got into big enough cups. Wearing too-small cups, especially with a too-big band, can cause your boobs to sit lower on your body, which can obscure your waist and make you feel like your body is hidden.

7.     If you feel like your boobs are a huge hassle and are kind of taking over your life—try bigger cups!

To ensure that you’ve found the proper size, keep going up until you find a cup size that is too big and wrinkles even after you scoop everything in and adjust the straps. Once you’ve found a cup that’s too big, try one size smaller. That’s your cup size!

As for band size, try measuring your underbust. Add 2 to that measurement if you prefer a less-tight band, add 0 if you want a tight band. Voila, that's your band size. If you change your band size after figuring out your cup size, remember that every time you go down a band size, you have to go up a cup size to get the same cup volume, because cups are proportional to bands. This limited conversion chart will help you get the idea. (E is the same as the American size DDD.)

40F=38FF=36G=34GG=32H=30HH=28J

40E=38F=36FF=34G=32GG=30H=28HH

40DD=38E=36F=34FF=32G=30GG=28H

40D=38DD=36E=34F=32FF=30G=28GG

40C=38D=36DD=34E=32F=30FF=28G

Why I Believe in +2 For Band Size

What with the growing knowledge of bra fitting, and the spread of helpful forums like Bratabase, 32D, and others, I'm beginning to think we've all gone off the deep end a bit when it comes to the tightness of bra bands. Lots and lots of people are learning that bras stores like Victoria's Secret will fit you into a too-loose band by adding inches to your measurement. The protest against this takes the form of the "War on Plus Four", and there seems to be a generalized feeling that the only proper response is to use +0 instead. +0 means that to find your band size, you just measure your underbust and use that measurement in inches as your band size. I have come to strongly disagree with this method!

Meanwhile, there has been backlash to +0 as well. Most Polish bloggers and forum members disagree with it. This excellent blog post on "Reverse Letterphobia" calls it into question. Ewa Michalak's size calculators don't use +0, but British customers tend to therefore ignore that calculator. There’s been a lot of clamoring to allow for reasons that different systems could occasionally work, and people stressing that +0 is only a starting point. But I feel differently. I’m actually a big believer in +2. I believe we should measure our underbust and add 2 inches to get our band size, and frankly, I don't think that's 'just a starting point'. I think it's the system that would work best for most people. In fact, I think most of the bra fitting stores that give good fits and don’t use measuring tapes typically do give a fit that is +2, not +0. I measure 27.5 inches around. I wear a 30 band. The brilliant bra store that fitted me didn't use measuring tapes, and put me in a 30 band, which fits me very comfortably. My sister measures about the same. She wears a 30 band. My best friend is a bit smaller and wears a 30 band. None of us experience fit issues.

I spend almost a year wearing 28 backs because I became convinced that since that was what matched my measurements, it was therefore what I should wear. I felt that I needed a tight back because I experienced a lot of back pain. To my shock I later discovered, upon switching to 30 backs, that the majority of the back pain I had been experiencing was NOT because of the weight of my boobs, nor because of a too-loose band. Quite the reverse, I was experiencing pain because the very tight bands were not allowing any breathing room and I got a dull ache from being so compressed all day in a band that had absolutely no extra stretch in it.

I often see reviews on bra stores’ websites or on Bratabase where someone suggests that the back is too loose because it fastens easily on the first wear, or because they can fit their hand underneath it. Being able to fit your hand underneath your band, fasten it comfortably on the first try-on, or stretch it away from your body does NOT mean that it is necessarily too small. It just means that the band has stretch, as it well should. In fact, there are only two reasons you should try a tighter band:

1.  If the band rides up beyond the natural angle it sits at (compare to its angle to the cups when it's off you to make sure it isn't just shaped in a way that makes it appear to be riding up); or 

2. Your center gore is not tacking to your chest BUT the cups still fit when you press it to your body. 

If a band does not feel tight, that does not automatically mean that it is too loose; a band that does not feel tight is, in fact, a sign of comfort, and that is good. There is no reason you should seek out a feeling of excessive tightness. 

Another oft-quoted line in support of +0 is the concept that we don’t add inches to our pants measurements, so we shouldn’t add them to our bra measurements. True, mostly. But check out measurements on Bratabase or a similar database, or measure your own bra. A 30 band bra typically measures only about 23 inches unstretched, and stretches to about 31-33. You don’t want your bra band to be constantly stretched to the maximum—we would never expect that with any other item of clothing. Rather, you want it in a comfortable zone where your measurement lies in between the maximum stretched measurement and the unstretched measurement. That’s what the stretch is FOR. Keep in mind, too, that stores like Victoria's Secret usually add more like 6 inches to the measurement, which really is excessive. But adding 2 inches is not in the same zone of inaccuracy.

Here are some signs your band is too small: 1. The hooks are getting pulled slightly out of their stitching. This should NOT happen in a bra that fits. 2. You get a dull ache that is relieved by trying a larger band or just taking off your bra at the end of the day. 3. You get red marks and chafing and feel like all bras are uncomfortable, even well-worn ones.

Yes—these things can happen for other reasons. But for the most part, you should wear the LARGEST band you can wear without it riding up. That’s why women with smaller or lighter boobs often find that +4 works just fine for them and doesn’t ride up—they don’t have the weight pulling the bra down in front and up in back, so a looser band is far more comfortable and a tighter one is totally unnecessary.

If you ask me, band size is NOT the most important thing about a bra. It is FAR more important to find a large enough cup size. When I was wearing a 34DD previous to being fitted in a 30GG, I never had big problems with the band riding up, and when I did, it was seriously the least of my worries. My big problem was that the cups were so small. That’s why I was uncomfortable, that’s why I had to readjust throughout the day. A well-fitted band simply helps stabilize the cups, but if your cups aren’t big enough, then that’s your biggest problem. If I’d gotten refitted at a store that offered larger cup sizes but used +4, I would have been fit into a 32G, and guess what? That would have worked just fine. A 30 band is MORE supportive, but a 32 would be perfectly adequate as long as the cups were big enough. On the other hand, a 30 band bra would have NEVER improved my issues unless it was at least a GG cup. Anything smaller than that would have just presented the same old problems.

Blasphemy? Perhaps. I’ve sat on this for a long time because I don’t want to be seen as disagreeing, disrespecting, or sabotaging the full-bust community. But I feel pretty strongly about this and so I have to post it. I know I am probably going to get some flak for this post, and I know the vast majority of US/UK bloggers are going to disagree. That’s okay. Everyone is entitled to make their own fit choices. However, I do believe that there has been a bit too much of suggestions on forums that people try smaller and smaller bands even when they really don't need to. Life is way too short to wear a bra that compresses your body. Of course, it’s totally up to you if it's your body, and I know some people do like to wear really tight bands. I just don’t like to see people telling others that they need to use +0 when doing so can cause more harm than good. So I'm placing my full support in the +2 camp. Actually, I don't know if that is a camp. But if others agree, maybe we can make it into one.

Clarifying Breast Shape: Full-on-top VS Full-on-bottom

This post is a follow-up to my most popular post of all time, How To Figure Out The Shape of Your Boobs.  I want to clear up a few common misconceptions and provide a few more hands-on methods for determining one's own shape.

This is the image I used in my original post. It shows what full on top versus full on bottom boobs tend to look like without a bra.

However, I did not talk about breast volume/elasticity in that post, nor did I talk about nipple placement. So let's fill in the gaps.

First off, here's a helpful method to determine your own shape. Take off your bra, stand in front of a mirror, and bend over at a 90 degree angle so that the top of your back is straight. Your breast will hang down and assume its natural shape without gravity confusing things. Wherever your nipple falls is the tip or apex of your breast (even if it doesn't lie where you might think the apex would be). In this position, you will be able to tell more easily if you have more tissue above the apex/nipple (towards your head) or below the apex/nipple (towards your stomach).

Full-on-top boobs will look something like this:

Full-on-the-bottom boobs will look more like this:

Note that not everyone has one shape or the other. If you have a balanced amount of tissue on either side, then you do not have either of these shapes, but rather you have breasts that are balanced--either full all over, or less full all over.

Another confusing factor I would like to address is breast volume or "perkiness"/"sagginess", which are factors that tend to change over a woman's lifetime. Most of us have more overall volume in the breast and are more "perky" when we are young, and as we age, we lose volume and skin elasticity and become more "saggy" (which is a horrible word, hence why I'm putting it in quotes). The relative perkiness of one's breasts, or lack thereof, does NOT alter the shape you have. I've seen a lot of people confusing "full on top" with "perky, young boobs." In fact, full-on-top boobs can be either perky or not-perky, and full-on-the-bottom boobs can likewise be either perky or not-perky. Your breasts will look different as you age, but the basic shape itself will typically not change.

Here is what breasts with upper fullness (full on top) versus lower fullness (full on the bottom) look like after loss of elasticity has occurred.

Note that I used the same breast shape in this drawing for both breast types. It is only the nipple placement--the natural apex--that is different. And that placement of the apex will affect what sort of bras suit each breast type.

So let's revisit my original image. Here are the two types with the nipple placement I had imagined:

 BUT, if the nipple placements were changed, then these shapes would represent the opposite types. Stay with me here. Here is the original "lower fullness" image with the nipple placement changed--now it shows a shape with UPPER fullness:

The reverse also holds true. When using the original "upper fullness" image, a simple change in nipple placement alters it to depict a breast with LOWER fullness. This is why the image in my original post was really not much use to dispel confusion.

Finally, I want to clarify that these two different breast shapes do not necessarily look different when they are in a well-fitting bra. When you are wearing a bra that gives support, uplift, and shape, your boobs should be supported all over regardless of where the tissue is in relation to the apex.

Here is what the two different types might look like in a well-fitted bra. I've chosen a round shape at random, but this will likely be the case with most shapes you can get in a bra. I've marked where the apex/nipple lies in relation to the center of the breast on the body.

Full on the bottom:

Full on top:

Again, note that I've shown these two different shapes on the same breast image--only the apex is different. However, it's also important to note that the different breast types cannot always wear the same kinds of bras. Some bras will work for both shapes, but others will not.

For example, bras that have a tight upper section (like Bravissimo's Alana and similar balconettes, or Freya's Arabella) do not work for full-on-top boobs. They will fit like this:

These bras are built for full-on-the-bottom boobs. Therefore, they have a longer arc in the bottom to the place where the apex of that breast type would fall, so breasts without lower fullness will not fill this area. Then the top section curves in too steeply to accommodate upper fullness. Sizing up will not fix these issues--it is the construction that is incompatible.

On the other hand, bras that are very loose in the top section (like the Cleo Chloe, Marcie, or Alexa) will gape on full-on-the-bottom boobs.

These bras have space to allow for a lot of upper fullness, so boobs that don't have volume there won't be able to full it. Sizing down can help, but it's not a perfect solution because then you will lose the room and space that you need at the bottom of the cup.

That's all for now, folks. I hope this has helped clear up some of the confusion regarding different breast types. It can definitely be complicated to figure out, but there are a lot of clues that can help along the way.

What Does Curvy Kate Have to Offer? (Brand Overview)

After a great response to my posts describing different styles of bras offered by Panache/Cleo and Freya, I’m now moving on to the third titan of full-bust brands: Curvy Kate!

Are you as excited as them?!?

If you’ve been reading my blog since the early days (in which case I’m blushing!), you may have seen my initial reviews after I did a massive order of most of the Curvy Kate styles. Since I was just starting out, those reviews were a little less thorough than the kind I like to do now. I’ve since updated most of them, and I also hope that this overview will fill in any gaps that remain.

Luckily for me, Curvy Kate is quite a new brand! So unlike the dim and misty past of Panache and Freya, the whole history of Curvy Kate is within my grasp and I should be able to cover all the styles they’ve done. I will also talk about Brastop’s Flirtelle range because those bras are made by the same people and cut to the same shapes so they essentially function as part of the same brand, just available more cheaply.

One really outstanding feature of Curvy Kate is that they find all their models through contests entered by, and voted on, by their actual customers. So it is MUCH easier to see what Curvy Kate bras will look like on a variety of sizes, including the bigger sizes, in contrast to many other brands that only use models on the smaller end of the size range. Curvy Kate's UK Star In A Bra winner for this year was just revealed today--the beautiful Sophie Morgan! 

Sophie Morgan, Star In A Bra winner 2012!

Finding Your Size

The most important thing to understand about Curvy Kate is how the sizing works. Although some people find they can wear the same size in Curvy Kate that they would wear in other brands, plenty of others find they need to go up one or two cup sizes from what they would wear in other brands—this is especially likely if your boobs are tall/high or full on top. Personally, although I can usually get away with a 30H in Panache/Cleo/Freya, I can NEVER wear that in Curvy Kate. I will always need at least a 30HH, sometimes a 30J.

A common complaint with Curvy Kate’s unpadded balconettes is a somewhat triangular/square shape, that looks like this:

Too-small Curvy Kate shape.

This shape means your Curvy Kate is TOO SMALL! Don’t despair and give up, thinking this is just the shape Curvy Kate gives—it’s not! You’ll get a much nicer look in the right size. Try going up one or two sizes, and shorten the straps to take out any slack in the cup. For a lot of people, this is enough to make Curvy Kate bras successful for them. For some people, it might be that you cannot shorten the straps enough to get the right lift in the big-enough cup size, and this unfortunately means that you will either have to alter the straps, or simply move on to a different brand (or just stick to Curvy Kate's padded styles).

Also, all of Curvy Kate’s unpadded balconette bras are cut with the same shape, so you can wear the same size in all of them—SORT OF. The different fabric and laces used do make a noticeable difference between the fit of some of the styles, and I’ve tried to specify that here. Knowing your size in one Curvy Kate balconette is an excellent starting point, but you still might need to tweak the size a bit when you try other styles.

The sizing of the padded bras is different, and I will talk about that when I describe the individual styles.

Portia

The Portia is one of the styles that’s been with Curvy Kate since the beginning. Way back when, it used to come in colors…

…but for the past few seasons they’ve just had it in continuity colors of black/pink and white/pink, plus an exclusive magenta color for Simply Be.

                                                   

The Portia is a good basic and seems to run pretty much in the middle of Curvy Kate sizes. The ribbon across the top is not tight in the newer runs; in fact, it is looser than the fabric surrounding it.

Criss Cross

This is an older style that Curvy Kate don’t make anymore. From my experience trying it once, it seems to run about average in sizing.  However, I do know there are some differences between the colors; the purplish-pink one seems to run a little smaller, for instance, though not enough to need a different cup size unless you are already between sizes.

Since this bra is discontinued, it’s one of the few that you can get at cheap prices in black and white.

Angel

The Angel runs a little tighter than other Curvy Kate styles. It has the same all-over diagonal stitching as the Portia, but on the Angel the lace at the top edge (though not the actual ribbon) is tighter, which gives the cup a smaller fit overall. I personally find that I would ideally wear one cup size up in the Angel (30J) compared to the size I wear in the Portia/Emily/Ella (30HH).

The back on the Angel runs tighter as well, as the criss-crossed ribbon adds some stability to it.

Princess

The Princess is the hardest fit of all the Curvy Kate unpadded bras. Like the Angel, it also runs a bit tighter than other Curvy Kate styles, but it is also the only one that does not have fully adjustable straps; the floral lace covers the front half of the strap. Remember when I said that you will need to go up in the cup size and shorten the straps more to get the right lift and shape in Curvy Kate? That’s much less possible in the Princess because the straps just do not adjust enough. It's too bad that it's a trickier fit, because it's so cute!

Check here for the barrage of alterations I performed to make my Princess somewhat serviceable. The fact is that it’s just not as easy to fit into as other Curvy Kates.

Emily/Ella/Romance

The Emily is, in my opinion, probably the best Curvy Kate bra. The top section is more stretchy and so it is an easier fit than the other styles that have stiff lace or ribbon there. 

So if you find the Angel or Princess squash you no matter how high you go in cup size, the Emily is a better bet. With my full-on-top boobs, I definitely find I get the best shape in the Emily.

The Romance that came out recently is very similar to the Emily, with that same little bit of give in it. I’m really excited by the Romance and I think it is a really promising style. 

If you’ve seen the behind-the-scenes photos of Curvy Kate’s Star In A Bra competition, you may have noticed how truly amazing the Romance looks in a K-cup! (Not all of Curvy Kate’s bras look as beautiful in the highest sizes.)

The Ella is discontinued but also shares the feature of being more stretchy in the top section, though not quite as much as the Emily. 

If you can’t find the Ella on Brastop, the Flirtelle Dahlia style is the exact same bra as the Curvy Kate Ella, but in continuity colors.

Lottie

This is another newer style, one whose popularity has surprised me a bit. I personally don’t think it is as flattering as the other styles; the huge sheer section doesn’t look nearly as nice in the highest cup sizes as it does in the smaller cup sizes.

The people I know who have tried the Lottie (I haven’t, since I don’t really like how it looks) have mixed reactions. Some love it, some find it gives an east-west look.

The fabric on the bottom sections of the Lottie is thick and firm, similar to the fabric on the bottom sections of the Flirtelle Sublime.

Tease Me/Thrill Me/Fleurty

These bras are constructed to give a really round shape. The size ranges are not as inclusive as the unpadded bras, but it’s still a great deal better than the miniscule size ranges other brands offer in padded bras. These bras are not marketed for everyday use (they're meant to be 'bedroom' bras), but lots of people (including myself) use them as T-shirt bras. I'm still hoping for a day when all the bra companies realize that the Thrill Me and Tease Me are exactly what many of us want for everyday use--colorful, cute, padded bras that give a round shape and don't cost and arm and a leg. 

Check out my posts here and here for my reviews of Showgirl bras.

Although those with full-on-top boobs are more likely to need to size up in the balconettes I talked about earlier, those with boobs that are fuller on the bottom are more likely to need to size up in these Showgirl half-cup styles because there is so much lift from the bottom. In general, the older colors of Thrill Me and Tease Me ran bigger than the more recent colors. This article "Thrill Me, Tease Me, Explain Me" on the Bratabase blog is useful for explaining these size differences.

The Fleurty is a new style, and so far the verdict I’ve heard is that it fits similarly to the Thrill Me and Tease Me, but maybe just a hair smaller—so if you’re close to busting out of your Thrill Me/Tease Me, you may want to get the next size up in Fleurty if it’s available.

The upcoming Entice style also is based on this same seam pattern.

Elegance/Tempt Me/Wild

The Elegance padded plunge bra was added to Curvy Kate’s continuity lines a few seasons back and I reviewed it here. Despite my failure to get a good fit in it, I remain fascinated by the Elegance. There is something about it that makes me want to buy it over and over. I think in a lot of ways, the Elegance represents the way in which Curvy Kate is truly superior to other brands at pushing the market and giving women who wear higher cup sizes the things that we really need and want. I guess I was surprised that the Elegance wasn't very hyped up and I haven't seen as many reviews of it as I would have expected, though there are a couple out there--Invest In Your Chest mentions it here, and A Sophisticated Pair did a detailed review.

The Showgirl Tempt Me and the upcoming Wild bra also have a similar shape.

Tempt Me

Tempt Me

Wild

The sizing for these plunge bras is challenging and weird. It seems like just about everyone, with any shape, needs to go up at least one cup size, maybe two or even three to fit in the Elegance or Tempt Me.

These plunges are also very wide-set and therefore better suited to people whose boobs have a bit more space between them. I personally found the Elegance dragged my boobs apart because it was just too wide-set for me. If I try again, I’ll try in a 30J (the biggest available size) and try to take in the center gore.

Daily Boost

This is a new style and unfortunately I haven’t tried it yet. It is different from the other padded bras in that the shape is based exactly on the shape of the unpadded bras so the seams follow a balconette shape.

I sort of fear this bra, personally—I worry that the padding would exacerbate the problems I’ve experienced in the tighter styles like Angel and Princess. If I do try it, I may size up in the cup to a 30J. You can see other bloggers’ reviews at Invest In Your Chest and Brood's Big Bras Blog.

Smoothie

This style won’t be available until July, but I wanted to mention it here because it is a totally new style. It’s not seamed like Curvy Kate’s other padded bras, but molded like the Freya Deco. 

I really like the animal print and I have a suspicion that this bra will sell fast if it is any good. I’ll definitely be getting one—I plan to try it in both 30HH and 30J and I will do a full review at that time.